Is anyone here ready for land in the lower 48?

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(Dennis Lanigan) #21

Kevin, you likely already have, but I would contact local people like Natalie Bogwalker and ask around for leads on properties, where to look in NC/TN, etc. When I’ve done searches on in that area this realtor Jackie Cure came up again and again.

Are you saying the property in your head in PA is in fracking zones, or in NC/TN as well???

(Kevin Tucker) #22

PA. :disappointed:

I haven’t talked to Natalie in ages. Do you know if she’s still at Wild Roots? I know 2 people live there and it’s in Madison County (one of the counties we’re looking at), but that’s about it.

(Dennis Lanigan) #23

I would contact her through her Wild Abundance contacts. wildabundanceNC at or phone (828) 775-7052

I haven’t talked with her in forever either, but I don’t think she is at wild roots anymore (according to people I know who have lived there recently).

Anyone have Charly Aurelia’s contact?

(Kevin Tucker) #24

Awesome, thanks!
I’ve been in touch with Charly.

(Kevin Tucker) #25

Anyone here have thoughts on NE NY into southern NH and VT? Or contacts? Probably going to take a look up there within the coming weeks.

(Dennis Lanigan) #26

It’s fucking beautiful. I went to a demolition derby in Addison county vt. Eating a gigantic maple bar while watching cars destroy each other: better then mad max fury road? Yes. Been to Utica, Albany, nh, etc. Land seems pretty cheap. No fracking in ny. Maybe contact the whole systems design folks?

(Kevin Tucker) #27

I really, really loved Vermont and Maine. I’ve only spent time up north in VT and just got demolished by mosquitoes the whole time. Maine was amazing but ridden with mosquitoes and black flies.
Land is insanely cheap in upstate NY, but then again, a lot of it is buried in snow for half the year. Hoping to find an option for a grace point between cheap, awesome land and livable land.

(Dennis Lanigan) #28

I’ve spent a lot of time in Maine too. Nothing in the NW ever prepared me for getting bit by black flies.

The thing about Maine, and potentially VT, is that it will never show up on a drought map. Much like MN, there’s tons of fresh water in Maine.

That’s the scary thing about the NW, beyond the Cascadian Subduction Zone, is they are going to run out of water. Better go find my still suit…

(Kevin Tucker) #29

Back from another round of property searches. This time it was Vermont and New York. Lots of potential in both and a few properties of interest. I will say that I think the very upstate of New York is a prime location for further application of the node concept. There’s land up there bordering state land in the range of $1,000/acre which is pretty incredible, isolated and really amazing. Searching loosely in the area around Malone, NY.
I’m not sure for me personally that it’s the year round solution, but it’s certainly some place that I think a communal hunting lodge, anchor point and potentially a place to converge would be ideal. The foraging wouldn’t be prime, but the hunting is great.
So if people are still interested in that, I think it’s something I personally could really get behind and I’m serious enough about it to think there’s merit in having more detailed discussions about what that may look like and how it could play out.
I was thinking that the initial “nodal access” could involve an initial buy in and then yearly fees which could ultimately pay for land taxes for whatever properties.

I think an ideal for these nodes could be;

  • More seasonal in nature, ie, not year round residence
  • Smaller acreage, access to public land
  • Particularly beneficial for hunting and/or gathering
  • Could potentially serve as meet up locations or even host group events
  • Proximity to wild areas, trail access is a plus
  • Cheap land, low taxes, awesome areas

I’m not sure if what I’m thinking of would be a delineation of the nodal concept, but for me this is more about a communal space. Any time there’s a “year round residence” (ie, what we’re mainly looking for), then it’s impossible to really avoid a lot of the trappings of “ownership”. Obviously the ideal is to build communities around those spots, but let’s face it, that takes a lot of work and I think tiering the concept like this (and has been mentioned before) gives kind of dry runs for applying the larger concept to all related properties or at least gives a better sense about networking.
These kinds of nodes could be in proximity to “year round residence” properties or affiliates, but the idea is to lessen the care taking burden.

(Pat Craig) #30

Hey I’d just like to see where everyone is at and what everyone is doing? If people have moved to new places or have been looking at land or making plans? I’ve pretty much settled the personal stuff I’ve been going through the past year (though I still need to save money), and am thinking about this more seriously and good options for nodes & communities.

(Kevin Tucker) #31

An update here because it’s been ages since I got on this site. We did buy land in Missouri of all places, but it’s a really rad set up. I’m not sure how much I want to put online for the time being, but I’m willing to discuss more person-to-person. I will say that this land is intended for community, but it also comes down to some of my thinking about the relationship between affiliated land/community and nodes. I do not consider this a node, but nodes would be very easy to get started out here, if interest was there. I am still on the look out for nodes elsewhere though and am eager to get on that, but not in a position to drop a bunch of cash anytime soon. Really rooting for something in Vermont!
Also, when I interviewed Sky in Black and Green Review no 1, she mentioned about how questioning whether purchasing land was really a prerequisite for what we are, by and large, trying to do. Having bought land in a really remote area with a ton of access to state/federal land in an area with almost no traffic/neighbors, you can really get that feeling that with a lot of scouting, you could do a lot without having to own any land at all. More so here than in PA where we were regulars in some of the largest roadless areas in the state.
Just something that has been going through my head a bit…

(Andrew) #32

Though I don’t see any immediate need to buy additional land around us in Alaska, I continue to believe that perpetually living on land in which one is legally trespassing has negative psychological consequences for most people. It creates a de facto antagonism with the so-called owners.

I’m not saying people shouldn’t it, but i don’t think the common anarchist squatting ethos is a likely path to the same kind of relationships with land our common ancestors enjoyed. But part of it is my disenchantment with the anarchier than thou set who use money exchange daily yet shit on those who try to pull land out of capitalist circulation.

(Kevin Tucker) #33

Hope you didn’t read that as a slight in any way, I purchased 20 acres, so I’m not trying to pull anything off here and definitely nothing related to external ethos.
More of a question about the relationship of nodes and their networking. If a node wasn’t going to be a “year round residence” kind of situation and there were reasons to be in a particular area for some reason at particular times (say hunting, fishing, or harvesting), there are some places where physically owning property is less of a necessity or priority for the larger picture.
Also, in relation to the particular property we’re on, I’ve had people ask about nodes out here. Considering that we are going to be here year round, if people were wanting to come through for weeks or months at a time to this general area, I would say that purchasing additional land could be unnecessary as I can point someone towards places where they could set up shop fairly easily and are unlikely to have much, if any, interaction with state agencies.
That said, it would be a lot better if other likeminded folks wanted to go ahead and buy up neighboring or surrounding properties when/if they come up.
No judgements here, just a working thought.

(Andrew) #34

Oh, yeah. I wasn’t getting that from you. It’s a common criticism of the project, and land projects general, from internet observers who may not have engaged much with us or see snippets out of context.

(Andrew) #35

Yes. I think having people connected to the landscape is key in establishing nodes, “owned” or otherwise. A huge part of whatever success we’ve had here has been because of those who arrived before us pointing out potential spots.

(Kevin Tucker) #36

Oh well yeah, the internet sucks.

(Kathryn Cardinal) #37

@primalwar so nice to hear an update from you guys! I got an email from Yank that I’ve been meaning to reply to. I look forward to hearing more about your new spot.

Things here in PA are really progressing. Our community is now comprised of 2 full time families living on our main plot (32 acres, we own 2 other small plots too), both families on our way to being off grid, and there’s another family that’s here part time. And then a fourth family lives on their own property across the road.

We’ve had people travel through and stay here temporarily during the last 2 years and that has been incredibly challenging at times. We are not interested in being a node in part for those kinds of reason, we don’t want to open up this place to everyone and anyone who wants to come through and may not have an understanding and reverence for wilderness and community. We do
want to continue staying in touch to see how we can lend support to each other in one way or another.

(Jennifer) #38

Just as a note, nodes aren’t open for just anyone to come out, we have screened our visitors and would highly suggest anyone do likewise.
People are welcome at the discretion of the community.

(Kevin Tucker) #39

I guess this comes down to the sense of communally owned nodes and an expanding network. Say we get to the point where nodes are purchased by a group and that group exceeds say, 25, 50, 100 people. At that point, who is doing the screening? If nodes are “non-year round residences” and communally owned, than anyone in the network would be able to go and bring whoever.
I realize this is kind of an evolved notion of nodes than the original discussions might have been, but trying to think through the process a bit further and dealing with the virtue of land in the lower 48 ostensibly being more accessible to more people in terms of “yeah, maybe I’ll go do that next week” than going to Alaska.
Also as we’ve seen, because attention has been drawn to this larger project, there are segments of the online world that feel entitled to full and free access to any property.

@zakiyaa, that’s all awesome to hear. Yank will have to fill you in on the details, but looking forward to coming up your way again and visiting.

(Jennifer) #40

Hmm, my initial thoughts are that I hope a single node doesn’t contain a population of more than 20-25, so like a band of people.
I would assume that the whoever is currently living at a given node would do the screening for themselves, either taking turns or whatever way they choose to set that up. Anyone coming to visit would have to do so at the invitation of that node. If someone were to visit a node, decide to come back to stay and then after a trial period everyone agreed that they worked within the community, then they become a member. The idea is that members can move around nodes freely, but I don’t think that gives someone leave to stay if they move to a different node and don’t fit into that particular community. Or there isn’t space for them at a certain node. I assume each node will basically have its own needs and ‘personality’. And while it seems like there is a pretty good chance that someone who worked within one community, would probably fit in well at other nodes, I understand that that might not always be the case, and people may be asked to leave. Also, just because a person becomes a member I think that if they were to become a nuance they don’t need to stay one.