It doesn’t look so bad, if you look at the fact that the Transportation section is optional. I wonder what the natives did or used to accomplish what they needed in dark winter, or for the “bacteria rich hide work” as you put it. Probably some dangers were simply accepted as inevitable and dealt with as they came. What were your thoughts on a truly minimal gear list or what would a completely bushcrafted gear list contain?
The stuff pictured in this comment above is probably pretty close to a minimal modern kit.
We don’t know anyone who has successfully lived in this area with less than a steel axe. We do know someone with a lot of skills, a commitment to learning despite discomfort, and help from friends who spent a year living without much tech besides that axe. I wouldn’t recommend it for most people, but it has been done.
The Athabaskans were living here without plastic, steel and canvas just over a hundred years ago. So with enough skill, knowledge, and support from a small group with skills and knowledge can get past all kinds of requirements.
@FlexedBow if you get into sewing some gear I recommend the singer 4423 heavy duty machine. I got it for $120 on ebay and it sews thru five layers of canvas. Check out Green Pepper patterns too. They have patterns for anoraks among other useful stuff. I’m working on a rucksack pattern of theirs. I’m really new to machine sewing so the full pattern is helpful for me.
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Thanks!
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I’m thinking of buying a us army military sleep system for sub zero temps, as it’s what I can afford. Any reason I shouldn’t? https://www.ebay.com/p/US-Military-4-Piece-Modular-Sleeping-Bag-Sleep-System-Good/934867772?iid=162099711297
Any canvas supplier recommendations other than Fairfield? They want $125 to ship the 30 plus yards I need to NM. Other suppliers only have 10 oz tent material, but cheaper shipping. I’m looking at a seller called “canvas etc.” They have 10 oz/36" untreated army duck for $3/yd.
I got this bag system. Totally worth the $70 I paid. No rips or damage on any of the parts.
I used to work for a canvas tent maker in Oregon, we used some generic 10oz cotton duck but I got to see most all the major tent makers in the country come through for seasonal drying and repairs, we called down curses on all the companies using 24oz canvas as it was awful in every way.
I’m pretty sure the army used 7oz canvas in their smaller “half shelters” and I was very impressed with how wind and waterproof that material was, I’m sure its treated with all kinds of nasty stuff but it does work. I mostly cut them up for anoraks or wrapped up in them for cowboy camping.
My usual canvas lecture is that I saw 50’s Hirsch Weiss (white stag) tents that looked like they came off the show room floor and I saw 6 month old tents you could put your finger through, maintenance is everything. Trying a 4-5 oz canvas tent is on my list, but I don’t get much weather in my current home to give it a test.
I come down on the “don’t worry too much” side of things for stoves and fabric, I’ve spent the last few years working with silnylon hot tents and even guys running stoves with no spark arresters can’t manage to burn down their tents unless they manage to start a grass fire first. In the time I worked at the canvas shop I only heard of one tent burning down, and I didn’t get too many of the details. Polyester is the only fabric that I would recommend against, nylon only melts, cotton usually chars but polyester burns like its going out of style. Even a lot of waxed canvas gets worn around campfires without anyone’s coat going up in flames so I have a hard time being too worried about an oilskin tent, but testing is warranted. I also did some UV testing on some shelter fabrics and one of the discoveries was that the wax leaves the cotton pretty quickly when left outdoors long term so it would probably be moot after a few months anyway.
Got samples and price sheets yesterday from Carr Textiles:
I got a sample of their texwax and on a lark, their 4.5oz french twill. They have a $14 charge for ordering less then a full roll (usually 50-100yds), Looks like they have quite a few options under 10oz but not too many under 5oz. At first blush the french twill does not seem like good tent fabric to me.
Fairfield has a similar charge for not buying a roll. Seems like Carr and Fairfield are for medium to large manufacturers.
Do you have experience with cotton duck shrinking? I’m seeing on some cotton duck supplier sites it shrinks 5-9 percent. Is this your experience? If I get the 36" wide army duck I won’t have much leeway for much more shrinkage than that. I intend on making the Conover eight sided tent, and it looks like at minimum I need 31". If you don’t know the tent i’m talking about see the Atuk tent “Artic.” http://www.atuktents.com/en_artic.php
I really don’t have a lot of info on shrinkage, I’ve always dealt with such large panels I never worried about it and I never measured a used tent vs. a new one. Its not something I’d worry about too much, on a tent like that it should only affect the size of the tent since there isn’t any kind of hard and fast size it HAS to be (IE a tent that was 10% smaller would just be 10% smaller, it wouldn’t suddenly stop working with the pole system or anything).
I’ve gone back and forth on the Bell Tent vs. Tipi question, in some ways I think a tipi is easier to make and only has a psychological disadvantage over the bell tent, but I certainly understand the appeal of a bell tent. Tipis certainly have a huge advantage in setup time. Might be worth starting a separate tent thread, I can share some fabric layouts for the various tents I’ve worked with in the past for best fabric use.
My initial thinking that for the main tent, waxing would prevent breathability that canvas is known for, and is important in winter camping. I can envision a significant increase in ice buildup on the inside. Waxed canvas as a rain fly/tarp only might be a good application.
Yeah, the texwax is more for possible clothing applications. Like I said I just don’t think the wax will hold anyway in an outdoor application so there isn’t much point. I think there would be a bit of an advantage in that a waxed tent would absorb far less water, for a faster dry time and less packed weight.
Most of my experience is with non-breathable tipis so I’m used to venting and frosting and relying on a stove for moisture removal, but certainly a liner or double wall setup would probably be preferred for a waxed outer.