Could feralculture and technopermaculture get along with each other?


(Grant Schnebly) #1

I think curiosity is among the highest of virtues. I try to pursue knowledge. I love to explore. It’s why I hike.

It’s also why I like math and physics and the space program.

There’s a part of me that recognizes, accepts, and embraces the fact that the only known sustainable human culture is the hunter-gatherer band.

There’s another part of me that wonders what lurks under the soil of Mars and the ice and seas of Europa.

How do we explore the cosmos with flint blades and beaver hides?

I wonder if the fact that agricultural societies have historically been hierarchical and non-sustainable means there can never be an agricultural society that is egalitarian and sustainable.

Could feralculture and technopermaculture get along with each other? Could people go back and forth between them?


What's the difference between permaculture and feralculture?
(Andrew) #2

I wonder whether the concept of “curiosity” isn’t a sublimated form of some other desire which goes unexpressed in the technoculture. It seems likely that exploring space is an evolutionary mismatch along the same lines as Doritos and Coca-Cola. Are math, physics, and Mars any more likely to lead to peaks in well-being? I am not asking is they are likely to make things “better” than the current situation, but whether they lead to peaks.

This culture hijacks most human desires and rearranges them to benefit subsets of [other] humans. So while I’m sympathetic to the underlying sentiment here, I wonder what it looks like if we deconstruct it and look at where these feelings come from if the veneer of the current moment is peeled away.


(Grant Schnebly) #3

Evolution goes in two directions. We have a past, and hopefully we also have a future.

“any more likely to lead to peaks in well-being?”
This very forum is a result of math and physics. Hopefully this feralculture community will lead to peaks in well-being for some of us.


(Andrew) #4

Evolution doesn’t work on a timescale relevant to this conversation.

Yes, this forum is the result of math and physics destroying direct human interaction on a global scale, and forcing us to use mediation technologies to simulate some semblance of communication. Thanks?


(Alexander Meander) #5

@grok, could you provide a definition of technopermaculture?


(Grant Schnebly) #6

Permaculture expanded to embrace technology.

I understand permaculture to be an attempt at a permanently sustainable human culture, centered on agriculture. I perceive it as kind of based on pre-industrial agriculture technology.

I threw the Techno- in there to allow for permaculture attitudes to tackle maintaining and advancing our post-industrial technology sustainably. Whether that’s actually possible, I don’t know. Probably not in anything approaching an egalitarian culture.

Permaculture has a concept of zones, where each zone has its own role in the overall ecosystem. The outermost zone, I believe, is “wilderness”. Perhaps we could imagine a human cultural ecosystem that had a technoculture zone, a permaculture zone, and a feralculture zone.

The only culture we know can be permanent is the feralculture, but I won’t begrudge others from giving sustainable agriculture or technology a go.


(Agnes Seitz) #7

Please check ( back ) out http://tobyhemenway.com/203-is-sustainable-agriculture-an-oxymoron/
in regard to your perception of permaculture and its connection to agriculture.
And I sure hope the idea of “ technopermaculture “ is just that – a oxymoron !
PC with all its current issues and being coopted by the system as so many other movements before, for me still has a place in my mind and work to move towards the wild , to support and uphold a future for biodiversity right on our own planet .